What is mold illness?

Mold illness, also called Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome (CIRS), is a multi-system, multi-symptom illness triggered by exposure to biotoxins produced by mold in water-damaged buildings. It affects the immune, neurological, hormonal, and gastrointestinal systems and is frequently misdiagnosed as fibromyalgia, lupus, multiple sclerosis, or chronic fatigue syndrome.

What are the symptoms of mold illness?

Mold illness symptoms span multiple body systems and include fatigue, brain fog, memory problems, headaches, joint pain, muscle aches, shortness of breath, chronic sinus issues, sensitivity to light, mood changes, anxiety, depression, digestive problems, and sleep disturbances. Symptoms often worsen in water-damaged environments and improve temporarily when away from them.

Why do most doctors miss mold illness?

Most conventional physicians are not trained in Environmental Medicine and are unfamiliar with mycotoxin testing or CIRS diagnostic criteria. Symptoms overlap with many other conditions, and standard lab panels often miss mold illness entirely. Specialized testing including urine mycotoxin panels, inflammatory marker panels, and HLA-DR genetic testing are required for accurate diagnosis.

How is mold illness diagnosed?

Mold illness is diagnosed through a combination of a detailed patient history, environmental exposure assessment, and specialized laboratory testing including urine mycotoxin testing, inflammatory markers (TGF-beta, MMP-9, C4a), HLA-DR genetic susceptibility testing, and visual contrast sensitivity testing. At Deeper Healing, diagnosis begins with a comprehensive intake questionnaire and is confirmed through targeted lab panels.

How is mold illness treated?

Effective mold illness treatment requires first removing the patient from the source of exposure, then systematically reducing mycotoxin burden in the body using binders, detoxification protocols, IV nutritional therapy, cellular cleanse therapies, and immune system support. At Deeper Healing, treatment follows a sequenced protocol that addresses each phase of recovery — elimination, detoxification, and rebuilding — in the correct order.

Do I have to live in Charleston to become a patient at Deeper Healing?

No. Deeper Healing serves patients from across the United States. Many travel to Charleston for the Stay + Heal program, an immersive multi-day treatment experience designed specifically for patients who cannot access this level of care locally. Mycotoxin home test kits can also be shipped to your location before your first visit.

What is mycotoxin testing and do I need it?

Mycotoxin testing is a urine-based laboratory test that measures the presence and levels of specific fungal toxins in your body. It is one of the most direct ways to confirm biotoxin exposure. Deeper Healing offers both in-office and mail-in home testing kits. If you have unexplained chronic symptoms — especially fatigue, brain fog, or immune dysfunction — mycotoxin testing is an important diagnostic step.

Does insurance cover mold illness treatment at Deeper Healing?

Deeper Healing is a self-pay practice. Most environmental and functional medicine services are not covered by conventional health insurance. However, financing options are available to make treatment accessible. Patients frequently find that the investment in root-cause treatment reduces or eliminates the ongoing costs of managing symptoms through conventional care.

Can mold illness cause autoimmune disease?

Yes. Prolonged mycotoxin exposure and the chronic inflammatory response it triggers can activate or worsen autoimmune conditions. Mold illness is frequently misdiagnosed as lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and sarcoidosis. At Deeper Healing, we assess environmental toxin exposure as a root cause in all autoimmune presentations.

How long does it take to recover from mold illness?

Recovery from mold illness varies significantly depending on duration of exposure, mycotoxin burden, genetic susceptibility, and whether the patient has been removed from the source. Some patients experience significant improvement within weeks of beginning a targeted protocol. Others with longer-standing illness and higher toxin loads require months of treatment. At Deeper Healing, patients typically report meaningful progress during and shortly after their initial treatment period.

Watch on DrTalks

Why Your Cells Are Crying for Help: Environmental Toxicity – Dr. Sherri Tenpenny + Dr. Michael Bauerschmidt

The episode explores the concept of “Total Body Burden.” Dr. Tenpenny and Dr. Bauerschmidt discuss the cumulative load of environmental chemicals, heavy metals, and foreign proteins that individuals are exposed to throughout their lives.
The doctors discuss the difference between “detoxification” and “depuration.” Dr. Bauerschmidt notes that safe cleansing requires turning fat-soluble toxins into water-soluble compounds and ensuring all elimination pathways are open.
The team discusses the possible interaction between halogens and the thyroid. The conversation explores how bromine and chlorine can occupy iodine receptor sites, potentially causing symptoms of iodine deficiency even when standard blood tests appear normal.
The episode explores how heavy metals are stored in the human body. Dr. Bauerschmidt and Dr. Tenpenny discuss how metals like aluminum and lead have an affinity for bone tissue, while mercury has an estimated 40-year half-life.
Dr. Tenpenny and the team emphasize the impact of emotional toxicity. The episode notes that patients must also address emotional burdens, as the body cannot rest and repair when locked in a fight-or-flight nervous system state.

About the Expert

Danielle Howley

Patient Advocate and Founder of Deeper Healing

Danielle Howley co-founded Deeper Healing by literally stalking Dr. Bauerschmidt. She was on a mission – determined to create an innovative, compassionate healing center she desperately searched for but could never find during the ten years her husband was chronically ill and bedridden (healed for years now and the inspiration behind Deeper Healing). Danielle holds a Bachelor of Science from Drexel University with a Minor in Psychology and attended graduate school at the University of Pennsylvania, where she focused on Education, Culture and Society. She's spent her entire career at the intersection of marketing and health/wellness. For twenty years, she ran a marketing consulting firm building campaigns for major clients including Aetna U.S. Healthcare, University of Pennsylvania Medical School, Novartis, Chester County Hospital, and Vanguard. Her personal journey into environmental medicine began when her firstborn arrived prematurely, pushing her to create a safe, non-toxic home environment. That commitment intensified when her husband became mysteriously, severely ill. Eventually, she combined her professional expertise with her hard-won personal experience to help others heal naturally through Deeper Healing—a dream come true.Through the years, Danielle became intimately connected to so many patient recovery stories that she wanted to create a platform for them to share their healing journeys in their own words. That vision became The Deeper Healing Podcast.

Guests

Dr. Michael Bauerschmidt

Founder and Medical Director of Deeper Healing

Dr. Michael Bauerschmidt is a leading Environmental and Functional Medicine Physician and Founder of Deeper Healing Medical Wellness Center in Charleston, South Carolina. After his own health crisis pushed him beyond the limits of conventional medicine, he trained in environmental medicine and has since helped hundreds of patients uncover the hidden root causes behind their chronic illness — including mold exposure, toxin overload, and immune dysfunction. His approach is simple: find what's wrong, reduce the burden, and give the body what it needs to heal.

Sherri Tenpenny, DO, AOBNMM, ABIHM

Founder of Tenpenny Integrative Medical Center

Dr. Sherri J. Tenpenny, is the founder of Tenpenny Integrative Medical Center, a clinic first established in Strongsville, Ohio, in 1996 under the name of OsteoMed II. Her goal is to provide the best of integrative medicine throughout Cleveland and Northeast Ohio. Dr. Tenpenny is a graduate of the University of Toledo in Toledo, Ohio, and received her training as an osteopathic medical doctor at Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine in Kirksville, Missouri. Dr. Tenpenny was Board Certified in Emergency Medicine (through 2006). She is currently board certified in Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine and maintains a certificate of special certification in Integrative Medicine (ABIHM).

Widely regarded as the most knowledgeable and outspoken physician on the adverse impact vaccines can have on health, Dr. Tenpenny has been a guest on hundreds of radio and national television programs. She has written several books and has contributed chapters to several more. Her magazine articles have been published in at least 14 languages. From 1986 to 1998, she was a full-time Emergency Medicine physician and the director of the Emergency Department in Findlay, Ohio. She founded Tenpenny Integrative Medical Center, located in Cleveland, Ohio, where patients from all 50 states and 17 countries have gotten well using a combination of conventional and holistic therapies.

She is the Founder and Manager of several online businesses and the Founder of nationally recognized Tenpenny Health Restoration Centers. More information on all her businesses can be found at DrTenpenny dot com.

She writes the Eye on the Evidence substack, as well as the Tenpenny Walk With God substack.

She hosts The Tenpenny Files podcast daily M-F @ 3pm ET on The America Out Loud Network with replays at 8pm ET on her Rumble Channel

You need to do some environmental testing on your body and see where you are. And you might be fine, but find out. 60% of the aluminum you've been exposed to in your entire life goes into your bone and 90% percent of lead.

Both of those really contribute to osteopenia, osteoporosis because they cause a chronic low level inflammation. We are in a toxic stew. but it's not hopeless.

You know, the job of each and every one of us is your first three jobs and environmental injury is avoidance, avoidence, avoiding. Welcome to the Deeper Healing podcast.

I'm your host, Danielle Howley. This is for everyone who's been dismissed, misdiagnosed or told to just live with it and refuse to accept that answer.

you're going to hear amazing patient recovery stories, raw and real in their own words. People who found answers after everything had failed them. You're going to hear from medical experts we trust that are pioneering new approaches to healing the body because we deeply know we're designed to heal.

Let's dig in. Hi, this is Danielle Halley and Tiffany Jackson. We're the hosts of the Deeper Healing podcast. we're here today. I'm actually geeking out with giddiness because we have an incredible guest here, Dr.

Sherry Tenpenny here with our favorite doctor, Doctor Bowers Schmidt of Deepers Healing. Dr TenPenny, I've been following you for a long time as a mother and as somebody who just loves doctors and loves, doctors who are out there in my opinion, speaking the truth.

which you have been a truth teller and a warrior for a long time. I admire all of your work that you've done throughout the years and we're just so excited.

So I know one of the things that I really felt made you famous was you're talking about the vaccinations and the vaccines and what's going on and digging down into the clinical research and mind-blowing stuff.

Dr. Bowers-Schmidt's background, environmental medicine, and I think it would be really interesting to connect the dots today between the environmental toxin load that we're just getting every day in the world and in addition to the things that were putting inside and on our bodies.

Why don't we start with you, Dr Biggs? I know you're dying to talk about that Lancet article. Yeah, and back in 2018, the Lance of the British Journal of Medicine, probably the singularly most respected medical journal out there, at least among the allopathic community, published an article about the state of environment.

And in this article, it was dozens of pages. They were talking about a link between environmental pollution and deaths. And they were able to directly correlate that 16% or about 9 million deaths a year were directly, of sudden deaths, were direct attributable to environmental pollution.

A lot of that happened to be with air pollution, but they weren't eliminating any, they didn't break it down into subsets. But the bottom line was that at the time of that publication, they were talking about 140,000 new chemicals having been developed since the early 90s.

In a revision of those 140 thousand new chemical, 5, 000 were in active production. So tens to hundreds of tons were available. It's actually to the point, if you do the calculations, for every man, woman and child in this country.

I could arrange to have delivered anywhere from 250 to 500 pounds of chemicals to their doorstep every day of every year right now. So we are inundated with that.

Now, on top of that, a follow-up article by the Lancet came out and said that there are now up to 25% of worldwide deaths could be directly attributable to pollution.

And that if you look back at the numbers, You know, if you look back at the rise in the amount of chemicals being produced on a yearly basis and things like, and they broke it down.

They were describing the following people. People that have trouble paying attention, people that can't focus, that are having difficulty processing executive function.

Does that sound like anybody to you, Dr. Tenpenny? Like most of the people that we know, right? Yeah, yeah. It's that huge thing that's the total body burden that is surrounding us and has been most evident in our children.

And that then kind of raises the question of your specialty of how do vaccines contribute to the Total Body Burden and what, if anything, can be done about it?

And that's the conversation I'd love to have today. And so I'm gonna toss that hot potato over to you. Well, it's just, you know, vaccines are just…

I call them foreign matter. You know we're injecting foreign manner into children actually starting in utero now. Where mothers get three or four vaccines, thankfully they've tried, at least trying to eliminate the COVID vaccine from that pregnancy schedule.

You know, the ACOG, The American College of Obstetrics is up in arms. Like, how dare you not give this vaccine to pregnant women? And so they're getting a flu shot, a DTAP shot and now a new RSV shot while they are pregnant.

They're giving a Rogam shot if they have Rh negative. And for the last five years, they've been also getting a COVID shot when the baby is still in utero.

And then when they're born, the get three shots immediately of a synthetic vitamin K, a hepatitis B, and now the new RSV vaccine. They're getting goopy erythromycin stuff in their eyes, which is totally unnecessary because that was started back in the 40s, maybe even before that.

When there was epidemics of gonorrhea around, and so they did that to prevent blindness if the neonatal gonorhea got in the eye. But now with all the exams and everything women got, they can say that these women don't have gonarrhea, so it's really not necessary.

So all this toxic burden that goes into children, and I call these injections just foreign matter, because when you look at what's inside the injections and all the viral vaccines are made with cow blood, they've got chicken parts, some of the flu shots are now made dog kidney cells.

They're made Chinese hamster ovary cells, all of those residual cells of them remain in the vaccines. And if you get every dose of every vaccine from birth until 18 years of age, excuse me, you get right around 12,000 micrograms of aluminum injected into you.

And you also get more than 100 doses of different types of chemicals injected in to you, so it's just foreign matter. I've said this in the last couple of months frequently, excuse, me ever since Secretary Kennedy has been talking about making America healthy again.

He made a big focus on making children healthy, again, Well, the first comment that I had about that, and I've said it directly to him, is if we scooped up all the children in America, all of them, every single last one of him and dropped them into the Garden of Eden where the soil was pristine, water, air, food, everything was just as God made it with no chemicals because they hadn't even been developed on the earth yet.

We scooped them up and put them in this garden of Eden. It wouldn't matter one squat about what they were eating as long as they are still getting 28 doses of poison by the time they're one year of age.

So don't tell me about making children healthy again until you attack that vaccination schedule and get rid of all of those foreign proteins, all those chemicals, and all the aluminum.

Even the multi-dose flu shots until just recently still had mercury in them. That attrition rate isn't going to go out for at least a couple of years.

And I think it was around 2005. I could be wrong about this date, but it around that time. that the environmental working group did a study on cord blood.

Cord blood is right after the baby comes out and the cord's still thumping a little bit, they take blood that is coming directly from the Baby and they go and test it.

I think they found over 200 different types of environmental chemicals and pollutants that were already inside that infant, not including all of the foreign matter from vaccines.

So, and I think that prior to that, physicians, you know, always thought that the placenta was like this little cocoon that protected the baby from everything.

There was just blood in with nutrients and deoxygenated blood and demineralized blood. And that came out, was filtered and sent back in there. But nothing else went across the Placenta because it was this protective little But that study sort of broke that open for most physicians.

I mean, it just doesn't even make sense that people would think that way. But there's a lot of things that physicians think about that I can't believe they think.

And in time with the environmental, I think, that was another pivotal environmental thing showing what children are exposed to, even in utero. And even, you know, one of the easiest ways to get a woman to detoxify, I prefer the word depuration as opposed to the detoxification, but the end result is getting the toxins out.

The easiest way to do that is get her pregnant and have her breastfeed. Yeah. And I've often thought about that, Dr. B, have also said, and I actually talked to different obstetricians about this and never really got a straight answer.

Maybe you can provide context to this. But you know, breast tissue is fatty tissue for the audience. It's fat. And it's got these little lobules in there that as you get pregnant, they generate and they produce milk for baby.

But fat tissue always accumulates metals. If you've got a large-breasted woman, you got tons of aluminum and mercury and cadmium and arsenic and all sorts of stuff that have accumulated.

all the years from the time that she started her menstrual cycle. So say from about 12 to say at least 24 and older. For the last 12 years, her breasts have been like a toxic magnet.

Then when the baby's born, the first download of that, and my question was, should that very first down load of milk be pumped and discarded? Because you're getting most of the metal or a lot of metals out before you dump them into the And then all the response I got is like, oh, no, that first milk has claustrum in it and it's really so important for the baby.

I said, but it also got a bunch of toxic junk. Shouldn't you pump and discard it, maybe the first thing on both breasts and then give nutritious, healthy milk to the children?

And I've never gotten a straight answer about that. Well, and probably because there isn't a straight answer. Because there's this issue of redistribution.

And so you may get that first dump out of the breast, but you know, the fat is also visceral fat where toxins are stored. But there used to be the way of determining whether people were exposed to phthalates and volatile organic compounds was do a fat biopsy and send it off to the lab to see.

So it's not just the metals. It's also all the other, all toxins, are basically You know, our basic, so the question is, is it all just concentrated in the breast?

And my answer would be likely not, you know. And then you have that risk, where's the risk benefit ratio? If there was a way that we could determine what the woman's toxic burden was before, Before, uh, breastfeeding and how many breast feedings does it take for that toxic burden to start going down?

I'd say we'd have some way of measuring, but the simple fact of the matter is I would much rather have the woman come through and let's, let us cleanse her before she gets pregnant.

And then that worry about the breast smoke. Exactly. But most women don't do that, but it's a good point on this podcast, you know, for the people that are going to listen, if that is going be listening to this.

If you are considering getting pregnant and I really like when you were on our show and you're an expert on her show about bone health. I love the fact that you said, I don' like the word detox.

And I've stolen that from you. You're welcome to use it. I promise my lawyer won't be calling your lawyer. That's very good. Yeah. Because the idea of, if you look up detoxify in the dictionary, it will say getting rid of something, getting read of a toxin, but people will tend to assume that detoxification means I'm taking something that's toxic and turning it into something isn't, which is truer to the root of the phrase.

And that is really not correct. We take something the body can't get rid off that fat soluble. the lipophilic stuff that stays in the breast tissue and the fatty tissue, and everywhere else.

And the first step is to turn it into hydrophilics so that our body can dump it in to the bloodstream so we can ultimately get rid of it. Lastly, that's the usual business of the cytochrome P450 system.

then that second step is connecting it to something to remove it from the cell. And this is your second phase of biotransformation, which is the responsibility of things like glutathione and methylation.

Everybody's all up in arms about the methylation pathways, and they should be, but that's not the only way. There are these other ways as well with glucuronidation and sulfonation, and amino acidification and blah, blah blah.

And now we got it back into the bloodstream, hopefully. Now we still got to get it out of the body. No where along the way can we presume or assume that we're going from something that's more toxic to less toxic.

In fact, many times as you go from that first to the second step, you'll go to from less to more. Right. It's one of the reasons I've said for a long time.

One of many reasons why morbidly obese people struggle with losing weight, even a little bit, because all of those chemicals and persistent organic pollutants and PCBs and all the things have been stored in all that fat.

And if they lose it too quickly and dump it into their bloodstream, it's poisoning themselves and the body doesn't really let you do that really readily.

And so it's a big circle for people that haven't tried to eliminate those metals before they tried the lose the weight. If they're just trying to lose weight, they are actually kind of poisoning themselves as opposed to cleansing their body and trying get rid of these chemicals and metals and then lose their weight and the the weigh will come off a lot faster too and a little easier.

Exactly and this is the point where that third phase that getting it out of the body that most people fail. There's really four ways it can leave. You know, leaving your stool, it can leave in your urine.

It can live in you're sweat. You can even your breast to a degree, but I kind of reserve that for like onions and garlic. And if any one of those pathways is impaired, and oftentimes I see with biochemically sensitive folks that they don't sweat well because their autonomic nervous system is out of balance.

and their temperature regulation is off. And so you lose that and then say you're constipated on top of that. You wiped out over half of your phase three elimination and you start losing weight, you are exactly correct.

Those toxins build up and feel bad and kind of go, I felt better when I was heavier, screw the heart attack. I'll take it over how I feel now. Exactly.

We see so many patients when they do the rejuvenate cellular cleanse, and they start taking care of their metals, you'll see the weight start falling off.

And they're like, I never could get rid of this before. We always say that is what it is. It's those toxins holding it for protection. Yeah. Is that just weight loss?

Dr. T, and I think we've been educated in the same timeframe, by and large. And I remember when I was in residency, in family practice residency. This was 1979 to 1982. There was one of the other residents in another program in same hospital, moved into a house and there was an autistic child that lived next door.

And I swear to you, there were 18 residents in family practice, 18 in internal medicine, and 18 and pediatrics. Every last one of them wanted to get invited over to their house so they could maybe get a glimpse of what an autistic child looked like.

Wow. How easy is it to come across an autistic child now? Just go to the grocery store. Yeah. What about all the rest of the neuro, how about ADHD? How about ADD?

how About just behavior disorders? You know, all these things are the result of this rapid rise in their total toxic burden. Immunizations is a big part of that.

And you're absolutely right about the aluminum. But people are going, well, what do I do to get rid of it? What are some of the things that you've been able to help some your patients with?

Well, we're real big fans, and have been for the last five years, of a product called Pure Body Extra that really does bind to the aluminum and the metals and and cadmium and mercury and all those different things.

And the persisting organic pollutants. The great thing about it is that it's a spray. It's My little own bottle right here. I actually do use it. Any of the products that we talk about on our show or that promote, everybody uses them.

It's a spray. Doesn't have any taste. You can use when you're pregnant. Use it on newborn babies. I put a couple of, every day, my dog, I'd put couple squirts in his water bowl, just couple a squirt because his nose is out there on the ground outside.

He's got a little flat nose, he's a got little Japanese chin. And so he snuffing up all the stuff that's coming out of the air. So he needs a bit of a detox too, right?

So I've put it in water and so that really seems to work really well. We've got thousands of testimonials for that and we've been using that product for a long time.

And I was going to ask you about that. I really want to dwell on this for a second because I went through chelation training with ACAM and then did environmental studies with Dr.

Walter Crinian and read Dr Bill Ray's books and all this and they're all about DMSA, EDTA, DMPS, these are the only things that we know of that's going to, that will, we can show before and after removing metals.

And, you know, anything else is kind of like good luck. Do you, are you aware of, I love when we get testimonials, but is there any, and I loved testimonial, we've got a bunch of them ourselves, have you come across any evidence anywhere along the line that, you know, that there's any kind of objective numbers that people can say, oh yeah, Well, the main product in here is zeolite, right?

And there's like 10 or 12 different types of zeolytes that are out there, maybe even more than that. And most of them are used in heavy industry for cleaning things like oil rigs and, you know, different things because they're hard and they are granular.

But these are smaller, particular types that have been cleaned out. I think that they have done before and after testing on this. I did an interview with a zeolite investigator.

He's MD, PhD, any kind of guy. And he sits on lots of different boards of companies that use different grades of zeolytes. I had him on my show and his name is Dr.

Lee, and he was talking about all the different testing and things that they've done with that. So I went through the same things you did, the EDTA and the DMSA.

You know, we went from EDTA over to oral DMSA and we've been going back and forth for along the line. And I also use in the clinic, We have a product that has oral EDT and I know that that works because I personally have used it and felt the significant difference.

And a little bit of cardiac chest pain that I was having that after I started taking the oral EDTA because I can't do IVs. I'm serious. If I go to get my blood tested, sometimes they use the pediatric catheters and they have to poke me nine times to give like a drop of blood.

Well, if you are, we're from the same planet. I've never been able to do the EDTA IV. So the oral EDT does work. And it's, you know, and I always tell people what I told people about chelation for years is that if.

You've got a bathtub full of toxic stuff you're wanting to get rid of, You can use a kitchen's kitchen pot. you can. Use a cup or you. Can use. A teaspoon.

But all of it will eventually empty out the bathtub. It will just take longer if you use a teaspoon than if he used a kitchen pot. And so it's all about it.

I think all a bit works. it just works at different rates of speed. You know, I'm going to suddenly shift gears because when you're talking about zeolite and binding metals, You know what else does that?

It's glyphosate. Yeah, for sure. Glyphosphate was originally developed as a descaling agent for metal pipes. Oh, wow, I didn't know that. dangerous thing about it, I think, is that when it comes in contact with, remember chemistry and valence and, you know, each metal had a positive, like, iron's got plus three to plus seven and aluminum's plus five or whatever it is.

Well, what the glyphosate does, how it works is de-scaling it. It takes that number and makes it basically zero. So now there's no electrochemical charge left on this thing, which makes them immediately accessible across the blood-brain barrier.

So when you want to look at Alzheimer's and aluminum, look and how much, how many sprayed vegetables did you put in your aluminum pan when we were using with some tomato sauce to make it a little acidic and the acidic leaches the aluminum and binds to the glyphosate and goes straight to your brain and you wonder where did that Alzheimer come from?

Wow. Interesting. You know, I want a touch back on something that Dr. Tenpenny said, and it was quick, but I don't think it can be said enough. There are so many young couples that are struggling with infertility.

What they do is they turn to IVF. They do not turn detoxification. Or depuration or cleansing. Depuration, or whatever you want to call that. I'm looking at my own family just to make it personal because I think people can understand it.

My lead is at 40, my mercury is in 30. And Dr. B was like, were you working in a factory? Were you a veteran? Where'd this come from? Chewing on lead sinkers when you're fishing?

And I grew up in Philadelphia. That says it all. I pretty much think it does. So I figured, OK, it was probably from the lead pipes and urban living and tap water.

Well, if it is from my childhood, then it would have gone to my children. So I decided that it was probably, I had my daughter, you know, in my late 20s.

I thought I'm going to test my daughters. My daughter's 22 now. Don't you, know her levels are off the chart. so I am like, okay, we're stopping this generational medals going into the next generation right now So we're working because she wants to be a young mom.

I'm like, no, we have to get cleaned up. So I want to encourage women out there. If you're like I wanna have healthy kids, you need to do some environmental testing on your body and see where you are and you might be fine.

Find out. You know, and interestingly enough, when Dr. B and I last month, he was my expert on bone health, right? And so, I did a whole presentation and part of our membership is they get a white paper that I write.

They get PowerPoint presentation that research from scratch and record. And then we have our ask the expert, which is where Dr B was our expert last one.

So the PowerPoint that did was on vaccines, the vaccines that cause the most harm to bone. That was the thing. But in doing that, I researched and I found that 60% of the aluminum you've been exposed to in your entire life goes into your bone and 90% percent of lead.

And both of those really contribute to osteopenia, osteoporosis because they cause a chronic low-level inflammation. So that's another step when women get told on the other end of scale, they've got osteopedia, you know, don't you got to take this drug or you're going to end up with osteoperosis.

No, they need to clean out their body, clean up their bones, stop the inflammation, and then they can actually even do some things to kind of re-heal up the bones like the Juvent.

You know, I know you guys have a Juven in your clinic, but a restructure your bones. The right kind bone health supplements. But I don't think any of those things work or they don t work as well unless you cleanse the bone.

Nothing works as good until you clean the body. And going back to the IVF, you know, there is, well, actually going to back the Lancet article, one of the connections they made was even low levels of lead causing that neuroinflammation leading to all those autistic and ADHD type activities and behaviors.

And lead, it also goes to brain. And particularly to the frontal lobes. This is where all your executive functioning is going on. And you wonder why, you know, why is, Why are our kids getting, I wasn't this stupid.

How'd my kid get this dumb? Yeah. If I remember correctly, they have a whole chart where it's like these heavy metals are where they a high affinity towards bone or the kidney or brain.

I've always thought of that too. When I did Dr. Tim Penney watched the webinar that y'all did together, which was awesome a couple of weeks ago, but I've always thought and we've never talked about this before and so now having Dr.

Tim Penney, so if people are getting exposed to all these heavy metals all throughout their life and they have a high affinity to their bone, these women, as they start to get older and the bones breaking down, now we're redistributing everything and now that's when it's going to the brain.

They could have had exposures when they were really young, right? And part of where you start seeing some of the resurgence of lead toxicity is in post-menopausal years.

Yes. And I'm sure the TAC-2 trial, whenever they finally get around to getting it published officially, is going to show that one of reasons that people have heart attacks is the lead.

Women start having heart attack after menopause. They start have osteoporosis after Menopau. Could there be a connection? And if so, what would it be?

Maybe lead? You know, you've stored it there all your life. You start losing it, put it back into circulation, it starts recurring in its inflammatory processes.

And you start getting the neuroinflammation and the depression and Alzheimer's. It's just ridiculous. The other thing I hope people can walk away with a little bit is this notion of total body burden.

You know, we are in a toxic stew, but it's not hopeless. The job event, each and every one of us is, I remember Walter Crinion standing up there and says, your first three jobs in environmental injury is avoidance, avoidence, and by that it is clean air, clean food, clear water.

So it, it part, you know what people that are listening can do just to help obviate some of their ongoing exposures. is to eat organic food, a whole fresh, you know, non-processed because you start processing stuff and you started not only robbing nutrients, but you also start putting in all kinds of chemicals back into the system for preservatives and for taste and flavor and texture.

You know get a good water filter for your home. There is no such thing as any safe drinking water. I take that back. They came in and said, Doc, I've got the purest water in the world.

I said prove it. And they had a spring in back of their house out of the mountains in Pennsylvania. They actually sent it off to the lab I suggested and it was absolutely pure.

Can we bottle that and send me some please? Oh my gosh. In big quantities. Yeah, and I think it's interesting, you know, with this whole maha movement, make America healthy again.

And we're so worried about red dye, blue dye yellow dye taking the dyes out of something that we shouldn't be eating anyways. Exactly. It's not food. So we want to make our crappy junk food healthier.

Sort of an oxymoron in there somewhere. It really is. We're excited that we take the yellow and the red dyes out of Kraft products, which isn't food. Yeah, keep eating all the sugar.

Because all those products especially ones that come in a jar, when you read them, still the first ingredient is high fructose corn syrup. Nobody's talking about that.

And so trying to make junk food that we shouldn't even eat anyways, healthier. I guess it's a step in the right direction because America has a junk-food of addiction.

And so if we can make their addiction a little less addictive and a lot less bad for them, I think that's really good. But it shouldn' t be the big win that it is sort of celebrated as.

No, it' s not. At this point, you know, i'll take any win. Well, you have a point there. And I think this is a way that there's no question that the chemical dyes are toxic.

I don't think anybody, there is no debate about it like there was for glyphosate or Roundup or any of the thousands of herbicides, fungicides, insecticides that are out there, so I like to think of it as the first chink in the armor and if we can begin to crack this, Maybe we can shave off a big chunk of toxicity that's inundating us.

But we're up against a hard battle. There's a lot of money out there that has a vested interest in maintaining things just the way they are. Yeah, and the facts, let's get back to that for a second, because you're absolutely right with the metals and their inflammatory properties.

And again, though, you know, we got to look to try to what can parents do to, it has to go back the fertility as well. I mean, there are so many hormone disruptive chemicals and metals are big among them.

Mercury will shut down your thyroid, mercury will interfere with your sex hormone production, and also they interfere in ways like receptor site blockade.

If people don't come to understand that hormones are nothing more than cellular messengers. They're telling your body what to do, when to and how to. Well, if you don't have enough of them because you've got these chemicals or toxicants interfering with production, that's one thing.

But they also interfere with receptor site blockade. So you may have, and this is where people come in and they say, Doc, I've gotten my hair is falling out.

I'm fat. My skin's dry and scaly. Can't stay warm and cold weather. You have a problem with your thyroid and it's not that you don't maybe have enough, you know, You can be within the range for any given thing, but still have an insufficient thing to do the job because of the toxicity that your also carrying with you.

You know, years ago, this would have been about 2004, I was working with a company out of Framingham, Massachusetts, and they were trying to bring to market a different type of iodine product.

And the study that they set up was so poorly designed, it's no wonder it failed. But that's beside its point. The doctorate that I working without there, he had two PhDs in iodide lipid chemistry, like two separate PhD's.

And so we were talking about, you know, what is a thyroid hormone? Well, it's tyrosine plus four molecules of iodine. So what thyroxine really is, its function is to deliver iodide to the cells because once it goes inside the cell, that clips off a little piece of iodine and we think the activated form is the T3, but actually it is iodides that gets delivered into the sell that's so important because iodines is important for so many cellular functions.

And then we got to talking about the interference of bromine and how that, instead of having four molecules of tyrosine with four molecule of iodine, you had tyroxine plus one, two, or three, four, molecules bromene on it because bromines is a smaller molecule.

and it can get in there inside of the iodine, particularly if you're iodide deficient. I said, well, I wonder if these are the people that we get a blood test on, that it says that their therogative T4 levels are normal, but they have all of those symptoms of low thyroid because they are brominated tyrosine instead of iodinated Tyrosin, and we've got a little bitty molecule trying to fit into a receptor instead a big molecule, trying fit it into the receptor.

And that's why it doesn't work right in your body, but the laboratory testing isn't sensitive to know the difference. He said, I think you need to do a page.

That's really brilliant. You know, so I spent a lot of time talking about that. Talk about bromine, because bromane is now in our white flour. We've got bromination in white flower.

Exactly. Got bromene in hot tubs and places like that. They went to bromines because it doesn't smell as bad as the chlorine does. and that gets absorbed in through your skin.

And so there's a lot of different places where we get exposed and you don't even think about it to bromine to cause the interference with what's happening in your thyroid or at that thyroid receptor.

What we're really trying to do is deliver iodine into the cells. The last NHANES study came out a while ago, 10, 15 years ago now, but it showed up to 19% of the American population was iodide deficient and the lion's share of those people in that group were of childbearing age.

So then the only way that babies get iodine for their brain function and to stimulate their own thyroid is through mother's breast milk. If the mother breastmilk is iodined depleted, then baby's going to be depleting.

And they did a couple of studies like in the early 2000s where they showed that if the infants were either highly iodinated or low iodineated from the mother's breast milk, it can make a difference in as much as 10 IQ points.

I remember reading that I had took a bunch of iodines when I was pregnant with my kids because of that study. It was like 20 points I think. Like it was a huge jump in IQ for women that supplemented iodide when they were pregnant.

And then they compared the IQs of the kids. sufficient versus iodine depleted and it's very hard to test for. We did that thing for a long time where you did like the iodide loading test, doctors dated.

I actually was teaching for doctors data at the time and I stopped doing it because their loading molecule was faulty. And I actually had it tested and they took the little pills of the supplement, put it in drops, in test tubes of prochromate, which is supposed to dissolve the iodine.

And this guy I was working with in Framingham, he set up 20 test-tubes and he put one pill in each one and two weeks later he came back and only some of them were dissolved.

And so the loading dose wasn't going to be appropriate, and so I stopped doing that whole loading dosage of the before and after with the iodine. And because blood levels of iodide is not very accurate, because it changes and fluctuates all the time.

So it's almost like you can make the assumption that you're iodined deficient because of bromine and chlorine and fluorine in your, all these other halogens that are in our environment back to your point about environmental load.

So almost everybody needs to supplement with iodine at some level, whether it's like bladderwack or sea moss or something like that that's a little more gentle than potassium iodide is, and it is more like a food.

It's absorbed and taken into your body differently. And remember, you're living in a part of the country. You're in Ohio. I'm in South Carolina. Back in the old days, when we still had soil that was worth growing food on, as opposed to everything has been heavily MPK fertilizer and all the minerals are gone and everything else, You were in The Goiter Belt.

Absolutely. And people were looking for South-Carolina vegetables. They were highly prized because of their high iodine level. Wow. Yeah. And what happened then is that's when we started iodinizing, putting the iodine in the bread as a leavening agent for the bed and, you know, basically cured hypothyroidism throughout the Midwest.

Well, then you're right. They decided bromine's cheaper and easier and we're going to use bromines instead. Guess what happen to our thyroid function?

On top of the fact that we've got all these interfering substances in the chemicals and the metals that are interfering with thyroid production and thyroid function, on top low iodine to begin with, and we're in a hot mess.

There's an organization out there, it's the International, I think it IDDD, International Iodine disease disorder or something group. It's an international group that their whole function, it's a big NGO, and their full function is to get iodinated salt into third world countries that don't have access to that.

That's what they do. You see all their pictures when you go to their website of them taking teaspoons of salt. The little kids' mouths and stuff like that.

And that they have actually, it's a bigger organization than like the World Health Organization. It's huge organization internationally, which nobody's ever heard of.

But it is this amazing organization that international something iodine deficiency diseases, international. Interesting. It's a huge organization and that's what they do.

They have basically done away with gladers in third world countries and particularly Southeast Asia where they're really focused on that. China and Southeast Asian by dumping teaspoons of iodinated salt into little kids' mouths.

Listen, at least it's not a pharmaceutical. Thank God it is not the vaccine. I used to subscribe to their newsletter because they had a free newsletter that they would send out about what they were doing.

They used it as a fundraiser because it was an NGO. And I always found the stories just fascinating how they'd find these little villages out in the middle of nowhere and poorly iodinated salt.

And all these kids had these huge goiters. I mean, huge, just like the ones you'd sometimes see in textbooks. They'd see whole villages of them. When I was really way back in them early thousands.

I got to be pretty much an expert on iodine for a while because I was so frustrated with the endocrinologist in this community. And I said, I'm just going to figure it out myself.

So I did a lot of research on it. You get a goiter because you're iodine deficient. You know, your goiter sort of swells because it's trying to capture all the iodide in the environment that it can possibly capture.

And that's why when they would give these kids the Iodine, the goiters would just mostly shrink down if they hadn't been too scarred up to begin with.

So it is really a fascinating area of medicine that we don't really talk about very much. Actually, let me ask you a question because this has always intrigued me.

We have the kind of the two camps in a functional world about how much iodine to give you got the low iodide group and you've got to be high iodined group, you know, like 50 milligrams a day of iodorol versus, 625 micrograms.

Where do you stand on this? Well, if you're talking about ioterole, I would say don't take it at all. We can talk off air about that a little bit. I really, really prefer the plant-baked products.

The 600 micrograms is way too small, and I think that the 12,000 micro grams is too high. They did all of those studies with women out of Japan and they were talking about using fermented soy more as the reason that they did better and that the eat fish all the time, which is the primary source of getting iodine is from the ocean.

I think it's kind of like vitamin D. For decades, we've talked about vitamin detoxicity and the dose of vitamin is 400 IUs per day and don't take any more than that or you're gonna be toxic.

And I kept people so low for so long, We made everybody vitamin deficient. And now everybody mostly takes, you know, 5,000 I use of vitamin D a day. You know that's a big difference between 400 and 5 thousand.

So I think that, somewhere in the middle of that is really where you should be in terms of the iodine. And if you do it as a food product, like rat bladderwack or sea moss or lots of deep ocean fish, then you're not so worried about iodide toxicity with like potassium iodide or harshness.

And for people that are listening to this, if you have a thyroid disorder, If you are taking thyroid medication, or particularly if he has Hashimoto's disease, be careful about the iodine and you should really be working with a functional medicine physician like Dr.

B, because Hashimoto's with iodine, it can swing like crazy. Hashimoto's can either make you, with Iodine it, can make a whole lot better or a lot worse.

That's why if you do it with food-based products, you're less likely to get that big swing. That's great. And, you know, it's interesting you bring up the sea moss because, there's increasing controversy over how safe are our oceans.

Anything you can put in your mouth. I know. That is why I think, I don't want anybody listening to the podcast to walk away going, oh, It's hopeless. bag of Skittles and go get immunized against COVID.

Give me some red diet 40. A big dose of high fructose corn syrup, which also, by the way, in the processing, they tend to use a lot of mercury. So it's not just the frucose that's destroying your liver.

It's also the mercury that is destroying you brain and your thyroid and everything else. But you know, I found it interesting. People say, well, what there is, so I got some mercury, is that I had all my amalgams removed 20 years ago.

I don't have a mercury problem anymore. I won't eat fish. And I say, and what's the half life of mercury in the human body? And they go, I dunno. So you're 40 years old, you had your amalgam 20 years ago.

You still got 75% of what you have when you were 20. And I always tell people that when they tell me that, when I say I've had all my fillings out, I said, well, you did step the hard, painful, expensive part.

You did that. Yeah. What did you do with part two to get rid of the mercury in your body that's been leaching out from those filllings for all the decades that you have.

Right. Exactly. And the other stuff, You know, There was always a bottle of mercurochrome or merthiolate sitting in the medicine cabinet. You get scratched or scraped, you throw on the mercurichrome and merthyolate.

Oh, that was mercury-containing compounds. Great antiseptic. He would literally put it on and put on a cut. Yeah. Mercuro-chome or methyolite. It was an antiseptic.

Mercury used to be treated. The syphilis used be to treated with mercury. Yeah, but that was because it was poisonous to the, to spirochete, not because, because you know, that's, the excuse that they, they used for, since from 1920 to 2004, so what, almost 100 years.

Spirochetes was supposed to be a great antiseptic and it, was, and was proven that it never did anything, you, know to become a gradient antisceptic. And that why they put it in the vaccines, cause it's supposed keep it sterile.

It never get any of that. But it was just another one of those lies that were just because they said it, and I said to you, you said that to the next person, it's just a lie that was propagated for almost a hundred years.

And so many things in medicine like that. We should write a book about that! How many lies have we been told? Oh, that would be the best book. You know, I did a little TEDx talk a couple of years ago.

And one of the premises was we got lost when we changed the medical school education and, you know throughout the, got rid of nutrition courses and things and kind of focused on pharmaceuticals because we discovered, these things called antibiotics.

It was one the first things out there and they worked so remarkably well that we adopted that principle and applied it to everything. So we had antibiotics for infections.

Then we anti-hypertensives for the blood pressure and antianginals for heart disease and antidepressants. And all we're doing was creating a symptomatic improvement without considering downstream impacts, much less the upstream that caused the problem to begin with.

My premise is that until we start dealing with that upstream stuff, We're just going to chase our pharmaceutical tales down here just by continuing to write the prescriptions.

We got to refocus our attitude towards this, whether it's towards vaccines or foods or toxins or whatever your underlying health condition is, you've got pay attention to why you're there.

I tell patients, it is okay to put out the fire, but you better find the arsonist. Yeah, exactly. And I don't think people just realize actually how much they are exposed to.

I just think it's, you know, nobody talks about it and especially with the vaccines, Nobody really is adding up. Like you, mentioned it at the beginning, like really how you're getting the heavy metal world, like it's in our food, it is in air, in water, you are at a, and this is what brings it all back to total body burden, your is full and you cannot get rid of it.

It is now affecting all of your organs, cells, contributing to all sorts of massive inflammation and then once you hit You know, the perimenopause, like that's everybody, it's like your brain just stops.

Like the hormone picture, everything just starts to get worse. It's just the normalization. You now, I say to moms all the time, Lysoling your babies, not making your baby safe.

And that just sounds ridiculous, saying it, but that is just normal. The other thing we haven't thrown into this pot, which makes the pot even bigger, is all the emotional toxicities.

Exactly. We focus so much on my owie caused by some chemical, and we don't think about all of the emotion toxicites that have gone on. I've said this for years, it's not going to happen in my lifetime.

Probably said it 30 years ago, I'm hoping there will come a day that when a patient comes in to see you and they pull out their list, they've got like every organ system involved, and then they get symptoms there, that the first question we ask them is, what's going on in your life?

Like what is going with your marriage, with you kids, your church, you know your spirituality stuff. Well, I'll deal with that, if all these things get better, then I can deal that.

We're gonna deal with that first because most of that list will go away once we deal With that emotional body burden of emotional toxicities in our life that we don't ever want to talk about Yeah, because and you're absolutely correct in terms of the total body burn if you I don' care if it's an emotional stressor and a physical stress or a psychological stress you pull that fire alarm in your brain and You are now in fight-or-flight mode And if you're in fight or flight mode, you cannot be in rest and repair mode.

These two positions cannot held simultaneously by the human body. And, if your not getting that adequate rest, and that rejuvenating sleep, that ability to just like, every so often, your gonna age quicker, Your gonna die quicker.

Your not gonna get better. I see it all the time in patients that come in. A lot of my folks have been sick for years. So, I've actually threatened to change the name from deeper healing to last resort.

I hear you. The doctors who used to work with me used say that all the time. It's like, how come we're always the last resort? We should have been the first resort.

Exactly. But they all come in with there's emotional burden to either causing the illness or as a result of the illnesses that's impairing our ability to heal.

And that's why the first D and deeper is emotional. It's really that important. And I've gotten to the point now that if a patient comes and says, can you help me?

I says do you believe you can get better? Because if they're sitting there saying, well, I do affirmations and I knew meditation. I said, yes, but do believe can better because if not, you're just having an argument with yourself every time you meditate or every you try to a positive affirmation because you really don't believe it.

Right. Exactly. Exactly. And if you don't really believe it, then why are you spending all this money to go all of these doctors, get all these tests, buy all the supplements, do all those stuff?

Is it window dressing? Yeah. Because you really don' believe in it. Yeah, because the family doesn't believe me and if I have enough doctors telling me I've got something wrong or if have I enough doctor telling I don''t have anything wrong, which if your sticking with the allopathic model will happen eventually.

And the patients who say, I am a fibromyalgia patient. No, you're not. You're Susie Q, who happens to have migraines. Don't tell me that. Exactly. They still identify with their disease.

Yeah. And until that gets addressed, they don't have a chance of getting better. Then the second question I usually ask them is, why do you want to get better?

Hmm, that's really good too. Because if they don't have the motivation, they may have to believe, but if don' have a reason to get better, what's in it for them?

If you can get them to focus back on, you know, can they believe they can and why did they want to, it makes our job so much easier. And it's all about me.

I want success, I wanna easy, you know? I don't like all these complex people that can't get better. Now I know you're lying. You never have hit the easy button.

So I have a question for you two doctors, because, talking to people who are, You guys are way far down the journey of understanding what's happening.

When people first start getting on the vaccinations, chemicals, metals, whatever. They feel very overwhelmed and they feel like angry. Like, why isn't anyone fixing it?

Do you have hope that things are going to get better in our country? Get better for who? The nation? For the citizens, environmentally. Do that this MAHA movement will be able to move the needle?

Well, I think yes, because I already think it's already moved the needles. The bottom line, though, is how far is the need going to be moved? Because the middle has started to moved, and I call that one of the gifts of COVID.

People suddenly realized how terrible the government was, how bad the healthcare system was. How corrupt all of research and science and all these things were.

And I think that they learned about vaccines. They're like, they got pregnant, They have babies during COVID and they couldn't go to their pediatrician because either the pediatricians wouldn't see them or they lost their insurance and so they could go.

And now the baby's three and their thinking about having another one. First one isn't vaccinated and he didn't die. They didn't die. They're healthy. If they don't have ear infections, they do have eczema.

Look at that. Do I really, can we do that with the second baby? Or do we just get lucky? And I think that people are waking up to that a lot. I've heard that more than I have in the 25 years I'd been doing this.

So I do believe that there is a sizable sector that are reading labels and they're paying attention to government and challenging their doctors on things that they didn't do pre-COVID.

So, I think the needle is moving. I hope the momentum continues. To me, it's like, how far is it going to move? Are we going hit a self-limiting, rate- limiting step that 20% of the population is going get it and the rest of people still want easy?

Because I've heard that before and I know you have too, Dr. B. It's like, I got to do all those things. No, thank you. I'll just take my Zyrtec. Exactly.

Yeah. And the other thing is, you know, we're I think you're absolutely correct. The ground swell has started. People are beginning to wake up and they're wanting something more.

But we have to be prepared. And this is the part that I kind of, I'm not as hopeful as you in some ways, in that we're up against a lot of big money. As you mentioned, you tell a lie often enough, people just come to accept it as truth.

That's the whole nature of propaganda. We've got, for every member of Congress, there are 13 lobbyists for the drug companies for member of the Congress and the Senate.

And I think that number is a little low. I legislators, the legislators are making the rules that run the economy. The economy is based on who's paying the senators, which is kind of that big, you know, what I heard that the easiest way to become a multi-millionaire in this country right now is to get elected to Congress because you get all the inside information, they're all guilty of insider traitor.

Well, you remember that, before Goetz, he left office there and he was thinking, they were talking about maybe making him attorney general. And he went down the halls of Congress and said, I've never met any of these people.

He went from door to door. They are Congress representatives down here like a Matt Goets, when he did that. He said, they all sit in their offices all day long behind the closed door day trading with their insider stuff scoops that they've gotten from being around you.

That's what they do. They sometimes show up to vote, sometimes they don't. And he went on, he said I've never met this guy, never meet this gal. He'd been in Congress like six years.

So, sadly, and I think that that's another gift of COVID though, Dr. B, is I that people understand that, you know, we've always kind of heard, from Trump's first term, that we got acquainted with the swamp.

And I always think people always knew it peripherally, but then they knew a little bit more. and now they know it a lot. And I think that people are paying attention, you know, the whole thing with with getting Bobby Kennedy into Secretary of HHS and with you, know the, whole maha movement.

I mean I, think, that there's more groundswell now than ever. i just hope that the momentum doesn't stop because they are going to pull one of these things again.

There's just, I just read this two days ago, they're setting up for another like event 201 here in the US. And so they are already setting that up. So the idea of why we have to keep talking about these things, and it's like with my book, you know, that my books that just came out, the Zero Accountability in a Failed System, how big pharma weaponizes vaccines, public health and the law.

And so I dig down into all of these things in a lot of detail, and I'm hoping that this groundswell will continue. When people read the whole history of everything that I lay out, I talk about a lotta things that we generally don't talk very much about in the health freedom movement.

And I'm hoping that, you know, it's doing pretty well and I hope for all your listeners. We will definitely. Yes. You can go out to Amazon or you can get it at Barnes and Nobles.

It comes in a paperback, an ebook or an audible. And it's the reason that we have to keep in this conversation, because they're going to do this again.

We don't understand how we got here from 20 years ago, when the Prep Act started 20-years ago and what the result of that was for COVID. And if we don't stop it and understand what it is, we're going to be right back in the same place again with masks and social distancing and even worse, really truly mandatory vaccines of the worst top possible kind if they release the essay of self-amplifying RNA vaccines.

It will, it'll be the end of humanity if they do that. It truly will. And so it's, um, you know, really important to keep the conversation going. Cause I've had people say like, I don't want to talk about COVID anymore.

I mean, this is a bad point in time in my life. Everybody I know got vaccinated and I want talk. About it was five years ago. Let it go. We can't let it.

Go. You have to. Keep the. Conversation going so that people may stay in the activist mode to be vigilant about what might come next. I used to think that, you know, why bother to vote?

Because I can't influence it. And particularly, I live in South Carolina, we're pretty much a red state. If you're a Republican, and you get elected, if you are a Democrat, then you've got a hard road to hold.

But it doesn't really make any difference if Democrat or Republican. We're so fractionated right now, that we don't have anybody representing the middle.

The one thing we can do is vote. And a lot of that voting, I think, starts taking place on a local level. Absolutely. And if we can get the local, you know, get your little house in order, and it makes it easier to make the next cities get their house and order and then eventually the county and the state and people can band together as that medium, that middle road that we probably all should be holding a little bit closer than we do now.

And it's why the midterms are so important. People only think about voting for the president. Every two years when they vote for it, the people that you're voting are your judges, your sheriff, you board of education, because all politics is really local.

And those are actually people that you see at the grocery store, you in the restaurant, when you go to the laundromat or the dry cleaning, or you'll get your hair done or whatever, and you can help hold them accountable because they're right literally in your backyard.

So you have some say and some control over that much more than what you could do with those jokesters down in Washington, D. C. Thanks. I think Daniel's over here going, we got to close this up.

But I just want to say thank you for all of your work, your decades of work Dr. Tenpenny, on elevating the conversation for so many parents way before COVID.

And I agree, COVID woke a lot of people up And that is the biggest gift that really ever, but also like, I'm really excited about your book. Yeah, me too.

Well, let's read it. We're going to talk about that. I already don't have a copy. We'll put it in the show notes and we'll promote it on our channels.

We know the Deeper Healing community, we're big fans of your work. Dr. Bowerschmidt, same thing. You guys are both just truth tellers and going against the grain for a long time.

And thank you both for your decades of work trying to help heal people. It's amazing. And Dr. T, thank you for joining us. I really appreciate your time.

And we'll have to have you back on because we just actually interviewed a patient, a past patient of Dr. B's who was injured with the Gardasil and made a tremendous comeback doing Dr Bs rejuvenase protocol and detox and cleansing, deprivation, all the things that we do here at Deeper Healing.

And it's a fascinating story of how 12 years catastrophically injured and she's recovered and it is an incredible story. So we've recorded that before this one and they'll both be out by the time this comes out.

But thank you for everything and we'll close with thank amazing meeting of the minds on the Deeper Healing podcast. Well, thank you for having me. I'd love to come back and talk to you again because this has been great fun.

Thank you so much for the opportunity, I really appreciate it. It's our pleasure entirely and same goes for you, you need another expert. That I can find one in my dictionary.

And thank everybody out there that tuned in today. You see all the show notes and we will see you next time. We hope this episode inspired you. Here's how to go deeper.

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